DNA Genealogy. Some Notes on the Reasons for Uploading your Raw Data to Multiple Sites.

DNA Genealogy. Some Notes on the Reasons for Uploading your Raw Data to Multiple Sites.

I know I have been blogging a lot lately, and this is very different from the other recent blogs, but I have returned to one of my other main themes of Genetic Genealogy and what you can do with your Autosomal DNA test results. This blog results mostly from having to spend hours writing out a lot of the reason for uploading copies of your raw data to multiple sites, and GEDmatch in particular, to a couple of new keen matches I have had recently, and I thought if I turn it into a blog I shouldn't have to keep re-writing it! So this is fairly current and up to date at the time of posting, but how long that will be for I don't know. I will probably keep it in the conversational style at the moment, but may have to change it, but remember the context was messaging a DNA match on AncestryDNA.

I'm afraid I wont be covering all the basics of terminology here, as, otherwise, I wont get onto the meat of the topic.


I mentioned GEDmatch.com to you early on, and will start pestering you about it soon, as I have someone else that I have recently had a lot of contact with that has uploaded to GEDmatch and it helped clarify some questions and assumptions we had about how we and some of our shared matches were related to us. 'GEDmatch Genesis', as it is currently, in it's new form, but will be changing back to simply 'GEDmatch' soon, is free for much of it's use, and is a serious research site. However, there are some higher advanced tools that cost $10 for a months access. I tend to pay for this about 3 or 4 times a year, especially when important/close matches have come into my life.

So! You, like me, tested through AncestryDNA, as I got my Mother and Aunt to do also. I tested my brother via LivingDNA because they have the most detailed information on the British Isles, county by county, more or less. You may have seen the articles a couple of years ago about research undertaken by Oxford University on the British DNA that reflected the Dark Age kingdoms, well that data was used to create LivingDNA. They have a DNA map reflecting where your ancestry comes from over various, mostly ancient, periods, but also within about the last 300 years, which is what is mostly of interest to us. 

(This is a little out of date now. https://stevethegreenman.blogspot.com/2017/09/finding-your-own-personal-ancestors.html). 

In the 4 years I have been dealing with my DNA genealogy I have seen most of the companies 'Ethnicity' results change from what was in reality a reflection of your very distant ancestry, as in more than 1500 years ago, which most people can't relate to or want, or are confused by, to certainly seeing AncestryDNA showing more about your more recent family history, based upon where your matches come from (via their public trees?). So now LivingDNA and AncestryDNA give similar geographical results. In fact all the companies are at war with each other, with all trying to find a quirk or trick that the others aren't doing, and over the months they all introduce their version of it.

Oh! And LivingDNA also gives you your basic Y group (not applicable to you as a woman of course) and basic mt group (which applies to men and women). Some sites give you information on your X chromosome, but not on AncestryDNA (even though the X data is there in your test results), as it can be a bit confusing for some to get their heads round.

Each testing company has its pluses and minuses and databases which will have a combination of matches not available on other sites, and a few people like me that have their data on multiple sites. 

This could be making you think something like "But I can't afford to pay for a test on all the different sites?" and "I have other family members I want to test too, now that I have some idea of what I am doing, and realise the importance of having other close family members that you can use to confirm or rule out lines of research, but I can't afford to test them all on all the different sites?", etc. Well you don't have to, and you can get the equivalent of testing through them often for free or very little.

Whoever you test through, the resultant raw data belongs to you. You hold the rights to it, and you have given permission to the company you tested through to use it according to your agreement. You can also download a copy of that raw data as a zip file (whatever you do don't open it, you will regret it, as it is HUGE!), and then upload it to various other sites. The testing company will whinge and whine about not doing it, and you will have to rightly go through some security hoops, but there are lots of things you can do with your raw data on other sites.

Ignoring some of the heath related sites you can upload your data to, these are some of the genealogy related ones, but basically you can upload most other test results to most other sites, except you can't upload anyone else's data to AncestryDNA, and as they have the biggest database some people that have tested via other sites (especially where in the past AncestryDNA wasn't available), some people later test via them too.

Although sometimes it depends on how old your test data is, as companies have used different 'chipsets' or something (no I don't know what this is either, it is computer stuff) to test data, over a period of time, not all data maybe fully compatible with all companies, all of the time, but generally, most companies will change their software with time to allow cross-company compatibility. Basically, I have noticed that with time, the different companies have learn't that they don't need to test all the areas of all your chromosomes, or not at such a high quality level to get the results needed. By reducing the quality and/or amount of data that needs to be tested, they can speed up processing (along with software/hardware improvements), and therefore make testing cheaper! All part of the huge commercial war going on to get us to test.

So! You can upload your data to;- 

Family Tree DNA (FTDNA) for free, although it costs a small one-off payment to get full access to the results. Not the best of sites, rather dated now, but a lot of people tested via them in the past before AncestryDNA was available, so you will find a lot of Australian and New Zealand matches on there. FTDNA is still the main testing site for Y and mt tests, but to be honest they are of very limited use in genetic genealogy.

MYHeritage is relatively new, only a couple of years, and is proving to be a very vigorous alternative to Ancestry, and certainly has a lot of good DNA tools. It was initially free to upload your data too, as they built up their database, but now there is a small fee (perhaps still free for initial upload, as is/was overall use of the site?), but it is worth getting some membership. MH have been concentrating on pushing their services in countries not directly covered by AncestryDNA; so you will get a lot of European matches, for example.

There is a site called DNAland, but it has never really gone anywhere.

You can upload your raw data file to LivingDNA for free, as they are desperate to build up a good database, but the information is rather limited if you didn't test through them, as things like the Y & mt part isn't tested in all the other companies (AncestryDNA did/does test Y for males, but the information is not detailed and not directly available, and I have lost the link to the site you could check it on).

23 & me doesn't seem to allow uploading of data to their site, and seems to be mainly a health related site.

You can upload the raw data from just about all the companies (including 23 & Me), for free, to GEDmatch! It is a very dry site for serious research by those wanting in depth information on how you are genetically related to your matches. There are various useful free tools and some more advanced tools for a small monthly fee.


So why upload to other companies? After all you are flooded and overwhelmed by all the matches you have on AncestryDNA. Well there are a number of reasons. Remembering that any matches you HAVE are just down to the random chance that a relative, close or distant, has tested, and anyone of them may prove to be an important link in your research, and/or help confirm/refute information in your tree. The fact that person may have tested via another company means that if you can compare your results in as many different databases as possible increases your chance of finding them. For example, I was able to start tracking down my Mother's previously unknown paternal family with more certainty early on via someone who had tested on FTDNA, but it was because she was top of my list (at the time) on GEDmatch that I noticed her. And because people on GEDmatch tend to be more serious and curious about how they are related to others, she quickly answered my message, and she had already noticed me!

Also, one of the main things you can do on all the sites EXCEPT AncestryDNA is look in detail at the segment(s) you share with your matches on chromosomes 1 to 22, AND the 23rd chromosome, chromosome X (which can give some specific information I wont go into here). The shared matches facility you have on Ancestry is mostly restricted to 4-6th cousins and closer (mostly due to the sheer quantity of matches), although sometimes if you are looking at a 5-8th you will see shared 4-6ths. But also AncestryDNA, again partly to reduce the sheer quantity of matches (and to reduce the chances of false matches), have different matching thresholds than some other sites with smaller databases. As I said, this is partly to reduce the number of matches by pure chance (Identical By State, IBS), and reduce the chance of legal litigation, I'm sure, but there are plenty of Ancestry users that you DO have a genuine match to (Identical By Descent, IBD) too that are not showing. If someone has also uploaded to one of the other sites too you may find you have a paper tree link to them on AncestryDNA, but not a DNA match there.

If you can examine your matches in detail (whether they show on AncestryDNA or not), and you find that there are a number of matches that share the same segment with you (at least three), the segment is called a triangulated segment, and more or less HAS to be a genuine match, and will relate to a specific Most Recent Common Ancestor (MRCA), or group of ancestors with a common ancestor.

GEDmatch is the easiest place to get this sort of data derived from all the main testing companies, where people have uploaded to it; although the full triangulation service is only available from the advanced paid for tools. But for $10 for a months access to them, you do as much data processing as you can in that month.

This create masses more data, which takes a lot of work to organise, but it is possible, and then you can start to see how groups relate to each other.

Now for a long time I have been building up a master spreadsheet based upon my triangulated and/or significant matches on GEDmatch (as well as many other spreadsheets based on the other specific companies, and I try to add cross reference details from each where I can, especially GEDmatch derived grouping information, etc.). 

It has been an ongoing process for years, and there is just so much data to try and keep on top of, but it recently became much easier, due to Rootsfinder.com having many DNA tools that can do much of this work in minutes, and display it in ways I had long dreamed of wanting to do. And it is constantly improving. It is free for initial access but it is a small annual fee to get full access, but VERY well worth it. 

(This is also a little out of date now. https://stevethegreenman.blogspot.com/2018/10/organising-my-dna-matches-trying-out.html).

The most important thing you can do is tie your DNA matches into your family tree (via a GEDCOM upload). So you can match known people directly to their DNA information, or to the known common ancestor, or assign a DNA match to a known route, such as your maternal or paternal side, or to a more specific line, like that you know the link has to be via your paternal grandmother, etc. And it is all colour coded to fan charts to help visualise things. It works best and easiest with triangulated matches from GEDmatch, but you can upload a lot of stuff from other companies too (even if it is somewhat long winded to do them, but that isn't Rootsfinder's fault). The interactive graphic displays of how matches relate to each other can be confusing at first, but once you start learning to filter some of the noise out, etc. they are great and useful fun. And there is a wonderful Facebook group too where you can directly affect the development of the program features.

Because of some issues I have found with my tree that I want to sort out first, I have not been doing so much on Rootsfinder recently, but intend to start over again with a major overall of my tree GEDCOM with less errors in it. But I intend to be busy on Rootsfinder very soon (famous last words!).

That's enough again for the moment.

More Bluebells and the Original(?) Great North Road.

Moor Bluebells and the Original(?) Great North Road.

I don't know what! I don't blog for ages, and then you get two similarly themed ones within about a week!

Today the weather was glorious. One of those glorious Spring days when you simply need to be out and about in it, if you can. Also I wanted to get out into some more bluebell woods while they were at their best, and I knew exactly where the best place to see their best around here is; Brussleton Woods.

So this time I parked up on the Bishop Auckland by-pass near West Auckland, and set off on this path across the floodplain and water meadows of the River Gaunless, heading for the woods on the hill.

I had never really explored this area below the woods before, and it was lovely, and quite good for nature too, with areas of pasture, water meadow and a few ponds. Quite a lot of birds about, including a pair of nesting Lapwings (or they may have been Common Plovers, or Peewits? (Yes! I know all three are the same bird! LOL!)). And the day was dominated by lots of Orange-tip Butterflies, some fighting each other over to us unseen territorial boundaries; as well as a few other butterflies.

I had purposely gone today (a Monday) as I thought there would be less people about, but on this section there were 4 other people and two dogs! Like Piccadilly Circus for a walk in North-East England. But after this I saw no one else for ages.

After crossing this level ground, my way started rising up the side of a reasonable hill, to the point where I was about to enter the woods and looked back across Bishop Auckland.

You probably can't see it, but if you follow the hedge line left of centre (where the first photos were taken), to the by-pass, which is in front of the mostly white buildings, I could make out my pretty blue car!

And to the right of me here were the woods.

You can't see the blue haze under the tree canopy in this picture, but it is there.

So I happily entered into the semi-shade of what is an area of wood-pasture, where in the past the trees would of been managed as pollards, with cattle and deer grazing the undergrowth below. Now it seems to be only grazed by deer (I did see one Roe Deer), which seem to be doing a good job of it.

It's funny how the masses of bluebells just don't seem to be so obvious in the pictures?

I paused here and whipped it out!

My Recorder that is, and played for a while. First of all the 'English Nightingale', which I am re-learning, but will never be able to play the full version as good as this;-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvDb5EmhfZI&list=RDZvDb5EmhfZI&start_radio=1

It is the pièce de résistance of recorder music and some of the variations are virtually impossible!

I then played my amalgam of Jacob van Eyck's version of 'Daphne' and the version in the 'English Dancing Master'. Again, no where as near as good as this; -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mlQdeHKfGU&t=110s

And then similarly 'Upon a Summers Day'.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JI12DePJVo

I then made my way eastwards through the blue beauty of the bluebells and the green loveliness of the sprouting leafy greenery of the trees.

Spot the Peacock butterfly! LOL!

Bluebells as far as the eye could see. Even as a Summer Solstice baby, this is my favourite time of year. And my favourite place to be, for as long as I can remember, is to be in a bluebell wood. And this really is one of the best!

Here's an old hazel coppice stool. Long after most of the old trees in the North-East were cleared for pit props, there remained a demand for hazel whithies for making baskets to haul and transport the coal from the pits (although there were also horse-drawn wooden wagon-ways in this area too from the 17thC). There also seems to have been a demand for hazel whithies even after their use was no longer needed in the pits. Maybe just for the shopping baskets of all the collier's wives?

And more bluebells.

Surely that must be enough pictures of bluebells? 

Nah! There is never an excuse for not having more pictures of bluebells, especially when I saw more and more as I progressed; sometimes along clear paths like this.

And then the path would disappear and I would have to tread through the bluebells, and across small hollows full of old dead leaves, so deep that it was like walking on a mattress.

And then I could see that others too had had to walk on the bluebells, they were just so thick on the ground; perhaps hiding any path?

And finally, one last picture of bluebells.

I then reached and turned left onto 'Deer Street' the old main Roman road from the south to the northern end of Roman Britain.

As you can see, now, here, after nearly 2,000 years of use, it has become a sunken lane, abounding with a rich diversity of old trees and woodland plants.

And are these some stones from the base layer of the Roman road still in situ?

This got me musing;

"Where Romans trod, 
In hob-nails shod.
Now warblers praise,
Of past glory days....."

You'll be glad to know I had trouble taking this any further, as all I was getting was things like "And Chiff-Chaffs chaffed!" LOL!

But there are some really gorgeous trees on this section.

Which is interesting, when you remember that this was the original 'Great North Road', assuming that there wasn't an earlier route through here? And, of course, certainly during Medieval and more recent times, there had been a number of routes, some heading from town to town, and others avoiding the towns. This section of road obviously has never been 'modernised' and may not have been used for much more than pack-horses and foot traffic for centuries? But the richness of the flora just goes to show how Brussleton Woods may have been like this in the past. Even richer than it is now!

Slightly sadly, I then left the woods and still on the line of 'Deer Street, continued northwards, on a much more maintained section that is the access to a farm.

But it was still rather glorious!

It was at this point it struck me that I hadn't been singing suitable songs while traversing the woods.  But as I was still fully on my own, I started to strike up some of these songs, as best as I could remember.

There was Thomas Morley's 'It was a Lover and his Lass'.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQ3XbrnLRM0

And his 'Mistress Mine'.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2c8Ki55Cag

I have always had a fondness of singing this in spring woods, because of the line 

"In these woods are none but birds,
They can speak but silent words,
They are pretty harmless things,
They will shade us with their wings."

And more sadly, 'O Mistress Mine'. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQVq6BjUho0

And finally, a much more cheerful song from Thomas Campian's 'I care not for these Ladies'.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myM9BCd3lVQ

This version has a bit of the sauciness with which I think it should be sung.

The last of my journey was just a short, and pleasant slog back in the real World to return to my car; but it was a wonderful and beauty filled day. :) 

Frolicking Naked in the Woods? Not Bloody Likely!

Frolicking Naked in the Woods? Not Bloody Likely!

So now is the month of Maying, when a young man's (and an Old one's) fancy turns to what he thinks about all year round!

Photo by me

I have recently returned from a weekend celebrating Beltane, the traditional May Day celebrations, at a pagan camp at Thornborough Henges, near Ripon in North Yorkshire. Well technically we were celebrating the weekend immediately after May Day this year; the bank holiday weekend (before a pendant start up. Always get your pedantry in first, is a lesson I learn't years ago!).

The fantasy, and I think it has always been a fantasy, even in antiquity, is that pagans frolic naked in the woods the night before May Day, shagging anything that didn't move fast enough. But the reality is (and probably always has been) much, much tamer. Except for the spectacular show put on mostly by students in Edinburgh (which is very much a piece of performance art), most pagans do very little (publicly, anyway). The pagan camps I have been attending for 10 years now, whether on the Eve, Day or the bank holiday weekend, have mostly consisted of groups of us huddling frozen round a bonfire or fire-pit, desperately trying to get some warmth, while necking quantities of alcohol with friends new and old. Maybe there is a bit of singing, dancing and drumming, or some story-telling, but most of the time we are just drinking and chatting and trying to keep warm. So no naked frolicking!

Over the weekend, there may be various ceremonies or rituals undertaken, that are mostly just doing more of the same drinking and drumming, but with more seriousness to our frivolity! And these are actually important, as they are part of our community renewing its bonds, and the creation of new deeper social bindings of trust and friendship, and a safe place where emotions can be shown, as we get out of our system some of our upsets, or remember our ancestors; the recently parted and and the ancients. Actually, the fact that we can do this in and around an ancient monument (the Thornborough Henge complex) is a real treat, and is very special to many of us; and there are more active celebrations in the central henge during the daytime, but I am generally tied to my craft stall through the day.  But definitely no naked frolicking!

Actually this year I spent 24 hours mostly trying to prevent my gazebo and tent from being blown away in a freezing northerly gale; not that this is uncommon at our Thornborough celebrations (last years warm weather was an exception). And by the time evening comes I am generally too tired to do much other than sit and drink round a fire with friends, before spending a cold night trying to sleep in my tent. 

But for me, one of the most important things for me to try and do, is a trip up to the Wooded Northern Henge of the complex, to undertake one of the closest ritual activities I do. I don't always manage to do this every Beltane camp, or at the Mabon camp in the autumn either, but I will always try to, and sometimes more than once, depending upon how I feel and what friends I may drop into conversation about it or not, and whether they want to go with me or not. And what do I go up there to do? To frolic naked in the woods? No, I go up there to play my Medieval bagpipes, while I stand in the middle of the henge, surrounded by the trees and the bluebells.

Photo by Ralph Turner, as are the rest.

This year I nearly didn't make it, as I was very tired after all the wind and cold on the Saturday, and a busy day of trading on my stall through Sunday. But towards the end of the afternoon, two friends, who were strangers to each other (Ralph & Claire), and I found ourselves just, ...  well we just found ourselves walking up to the woods together, with hardly a thought as to why we were (and despite the fact that Ralph had not long returned from a visit there), we just did! In a sort of magical happening.

On the way there we chatted about the wildflowers and wildlife and nature, and about the history of the woods, etc. And there was another group close behind us, who got ahead of us, when we stopped as I talked to a friend in one of several groups returning from the woods. It is a busy day for the Wooded Henge.  But here was another strange thing. When we got there, and entered the woods, we didn't see anyone else after a few minutes. We had it all to ourselves from as far as I could see.

We progressed to the centre of the henge.

And there I assembled my bagpipes, and played a little, but I haven't been practising enough to play for long, before I run out of puff. So I placed them down on the ground.

But this year I had also brought my favourite recorder; an instrument I had been playing badly for many years before I started playing the bagpipes.

I have been making serious efforts to try and practice both instruments at the same time, as the recorder doesn't need as much puff, but different breathing and fingering techniques to remember. And generally I have been practising by myself with the beautiful acoustics in Brancepeth Castle hall, but have also been trying to build up my self confidence at playing with other people present. So as I played I tried to think of myself being on my own in the castle hall. And confidence brings better, less hesitant and/or fumbled playing; especially when hitting the high notes. And overall things went well.

And now here is one of the other 'special' ('magical'?) parts of this simple spiritual ritual.

Generally, I have either gone up by myself to the Wooded Henge, to do my 'thing'; 'communing' with nature by myself, or a friend or a few have gone up with me as a group, and I am happy with that, as they have some idea of what to expect. But if I go up by myself and there are already people there, I will generally wait until they have left before I play, if I play at all; as I don't feel comfortable forcing my 'thing' onto those not expecting it, who may be doing their 'thing' with their friends. And if I go up on my own, and people appear while I am playing, even if they are friends, I am not comfortable; especially as rather than me doing my spiritual thing it always ends up with me having to do a tutorial on the bagpipes.

But this time seemed to be extra special. Ralph, I think, had been up with me before (all the camps start merging into one after a while), but at least had heard my bagpiping before. But I don't even know if Claire knew I would be piping as part of our shared spiritual journey to the woods. We all just went, and I just brought my instruments without really saying much. Yes! I'm sure I must have said something about piping in the woods being part of the visit to them! However it all seems a dream now.

And now it all seems even more dream like, as I played reasonably well and confidently, due to being with friends I felt comfortable with in a sacred place that we seemed to have to ourselves. An island of spiritual peace and harmony. The beauty of true friendship, without any thoughts of anything but the here-and-now at the time. 

True peace. True harmony. True spirit.